1. Racist Infidel

    Racist Infidel Member

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    Can you point to one CFR that reflects a holding by the SCOTUS? It's addressed under the 1st.Amendment.
     
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  2. Grizzley1

    Grizzley1 Well-Known Member

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    My speech is a protected right, the First Amendment says so. The location I choose to make that speech is not. If I stand in the middle of a freeway shouting out my opinion I'm going to get arrested, not for what I was saying but for where I was saying it at.

    Yes burning a flag is indeed free speech, but burning a flag somewhere that it is illegal to set fire to something is a crime you can be arrested for.

    If setting a cardboard box on fire in the middle of a crowded sidewalk or public park is illegal then so is burning a flag in those locations, not because of what you are trying to say by burning it but because of where you chose to burn it.

    You can't just start a fire anyplace you feel like starting a fire. You have to follow the laws regarding fires.

    Hell, I can't even burn leaves in my back yard without checking with the environmental wacko's first to see if the air quality standards are being met, getting a burn permit, having a hose and shovel at the ready, ect. ect. ect.

    Did the flag burner get a burn permit? Check with the environmental wackos to see if the air quality was going to allow open burning? Did he have a fire watch posted? Did he have firefighting tools available to him at all times during the burn?

    Now if he followed all the laws regarding open burning then he can burn as many flags as he wishes but if he broke any laws regarding open burning then he needs to be charged with those violations.
     
  3. Bob Reynolds

    Bob Reynolds Member

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    Although I do agree with " If you bought it, it is yours to do as you wish with it ", But ...
    If some big mean Marine, or any other branch of the armed forces, comes out to kick your a$$ for it.
    Well ...
    In my opinion, you had that coming !
     
  4. Grizzley1

    Grizzley1 Well-Known Member

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    Wouldn't those Marines also be exercising their right to free speech by kicking the snot out of them?

    Using the same flawed logic as the flag burners, free speech trumps any other law they might also be breaking, such as arson, while using an action as a form of "speech".
     
  5. Racist Infidel

    Racist Infidel Member

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    So "free speech" is to include assault and battery?

    It has been stated many times before, the 1st protects unpopular speech, there is no need to protect popular speech.
     
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  6. Bob Reynolds

    Bob Reynolds Member

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    Morals, Ethics, and Legal all sometimes get confused, as in this case.
    Same thing happens with Education, and Intelligence.

    If we worried more about teaching, the (2) R's I call it, we would all be better off as a society.

    Respect and Responsibility
     
  7. zkovach

    zkovach Well-Known Member

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    I still have 12 rolls
     
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  8. Twicepop

    Twicepop Well-Known Member

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    Presidents by law aren't supposed to make anything legal or illegal, that is the dominion of Congress. The President may sign it, and it become ratified but it is still up to the Congress to make all laws. All bills/laws begin in the Congress, then wind their way through both Congressional chambers it then goes on to the President. The President has several options at hand, sing the bill to complete the passage, ignore it and after 28 days (I think that's the figure) it is considered passed without Presidential approval, or veto it. Congress together has the power to over-ride a Presidential veto, and pass the law.
     
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  9. Grizzley1

    Grizzley1 Well-Known Member

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    Nope, just using that as an example that free speech does not protect an action that is contrary to the laws regarding said action.

    Setting fire to something where most of these flag burners are setting flags on fire would land them in jail or subject them to a fine.

    So, if it's illegal to burn something where they are burning a flag then they should be charged under what ever laws pertain to setting fires where fires are not permitted.
     
  10. Racist Infidel

    Racist Infidel Member

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    Do you know of any statutes that forbid fires in your community? What is the penalty for this hideous criminal activity? Do you really think LEO wants to waste their and the Court's time with that?

    A friend of mine had a tree fall on his property. He called about burning it and was told he could not do so. I suggested he cut the tree up into smaller pieces and then just have backyard camp fires and roast some hotdogs and marshmallows with the kids. The fire department was called by one of the neighbors. They looked at the issue and agreed that he had every right to bar-b-que in his backyard. Problem gone.

    I learned long ago how to screw with public officials that stray over the line. My County Attorney struck a deal with me; they leave me alone and I leave them alone. I got one County Manager and the head of Codes Enforcement fired for the stuff they did. :D
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 17, 2017 at 11:12 AM
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  11. Grizzley1

    Grizzley1 Well-Known Member

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    Around here burning leaves and other woody yard debris from trees or shrubs is legal but only during burn season, only on days the air quality board says it's safe to burn and only with a permit. All burning must be done during daylight hours and all fires must be completely extinguished before sunset.
    Any open burning of garbage, construction materials or other trash without the proper permits can get you a hefty fine, upwards of $10,000.

    We had the police show up one evening because we had a fire out back, some nosy neighbor had called them, lucky for us it was firewood logs rather than 2x4s.

    He did mention that next time we wanted to have a campfire out back build it in an old barbeque grill and have some hotdogs on a stick because barbequeing was legal, open fires were not.

    The Supreme Court has ruled that laws against burning or destroying a U.S. flag in a disrespectful manner are unlawful because they violate First amendment rights, and they do indeed violate our right free speech, but that does not grant us license to break any other laws regarding our behavior while we engage in free speech.

    As an example I can legally urinate or defecate on a flag to voice my displeasure at our Government.

    So, the First Amendment protects my right to pee and poo on the flag.

    But if I drop trou or whip it out in the middle of Main Street and do my business on a flag, I can be, should be, and deserve to be, prosecuted for indecent exposure because the First Amendment does not grant me the right to pee or poo in public just because I'm doing it on a flag.
     
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  12. carver

    carver Moderator Supporting Member

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    You folks can argue over whether it's legal or not to burn the American flag, and whether or not it's protected under the 1st Amendment. Go to Mexico, and burn a Mexican flag. Go to Syria and burn a muzzie flag. Go to China and burn a Chinese flag. The same thing should happen to you in America that would happen to you in these countries.
     
  13. Racist Infidel

    Racist Infidel Member

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    Do you really think we should use the same laws as a communist country in our Constitutional Republic? If you want to live under the same laws as they have in China, Cuba is taking visitors.

    That's just FUBAR. :rolleyes:
     
  14. carver

    carver Moderator Supporting Member

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    I've sworn to defend this country, and it's flag. I took my oath under the flag. If you want to burn a flag, have at it. But if you burn my flag, in my presence, you will pay a price! And if you don't like that you can move! Yeah, and even people in a communist country has more respect for their flag than most Americans do for theirs.
     
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