Help to identify

Discussion in 'Technical Questions & Information' started by Jonathan W., Dec 31, 2016.

  1. Jonathan W.

    Jonathan W. New Member

    5
    Dec 31, 2016
    IMG_1495.JPG IMG_1498.JPG IMG_1500.JPG IMG_1469.JPG IMG_1495.JPG IMG_1498.JPG IMG_1500.JPG I have, what is believed to be, a civil war musket/rifle, bayonet with sheath and US buckle for the sheath. There are markings on the rifle but are faint and I can make out "851." There are some other markings on the rings as well. I would like to know a possible manufacturer and more information if possible about this family heirloom. If you can message me with your email I can send additional photos. Thank you.
     

    Attached Files:

  2. tedwitt

    tedwitt Well-Known Member Supporting Member

    I would clean that weapon up and hang it on the wall and be proud of it.
     

  3. Grizzley1

    Grizzley1 Well-Known Member

    Aug 31, 2014
    Oregon.
    Can you post full length photos of both sides of the musket and pics of the lock and side panel that show them in their entirety rather than so close you can't see the entire lock.

    What I can see of the lock and bolster look like a pattern 1851 or 1853 Enfield but the forward barrel band looks wrong for an Enfield rifled musket.

    Also if you can, measure the bore diameter and is it smooth or rifled?
     
  4. Jonathan W.

    Jonathan W. New Member

    5
    Dec 31, 2016
    IMG_1462.JPG IMG_1484.JPG IMG_1475.JPG IMG_1484.JPG I uploaded more photos as well as the end of the barrel that appears is rifled - can see the slight grooves at the end. It has been in family storage for decades. I do plan on cleaning it but want to know more about it. I will try to measure it. The rear site is also adjustable if that helps- lays flat or can be stood up.
     

    Attached Files:

  5. Jonathan W.

    Jonathan W. New Member

    5
    Dec 31, 2016
  6. Grizzley1

    Grizzley1 Well-Known Member

    Aug 31, 2014
    Oregon.
    Be very careful in your cleaning, clean it too aggressively and you will destroy it's value.

    It has some really weird things going on with it, some of the parts look to be from an Enfield, imported by both sides during the war, and others look like they were from a U.S. Springfield musket with a few blacksmith made parts to round things off.

    Last ditch effort Confederate musket put together from other battle damaged muskets perhaps ?
     
  7. Jonathan W.

    Jonathan W. New Member

    5
    Dec 31, 2016
    IMG_1502.JPG IMG_1486.JPG IMG_1485.JPG IMG_1471.JPG IMG_1472.JPG IMG_1465.JPG
     

    Attached Files:

  8. Bill DeShivs

    Bill DeShivs Well-Known Member

    Apr 7, 2006
    Your pictures seem to be of everything except the gun.
     
    gdmoody likes this.
  9. Grayrock Volunteer

    Grayrock Volunteer New Member

    7
    Dec 23, 2016
    What you have there is a commercial variant of the Austrian Muster 1854 rifle-musket, better known as a "Lorenz". The Muster 1854 was the first percussion ignition weapon adopted by the Astro-Hungarian Empire. Your particular musket is not an Austrian military weapon, but rather a commercial model sold to Federal buyers during the Civil War. It is identified as so by the absence of the integral cheek rest on the left side of the stock. I would also suspect that if you measure the bore of your rifle you will find it to be larger than the standard Austrian bore size of .547 inches/13.9 mm., as a large portion of Federally imported "Lorenz" rifles were ordered in the standard American .58 caliber (although original import Lorenz rifles vary from .54 to about .60). You musket is interesting because although it is a contract made arm it bares the Imperial Eagle mark at the rear of the lock. This is because your rifle was made with a recycled lockplate from what was probably a Muster 1842 Musket. The 851 marking on the side of the lock is the Austrian abbreviated year stamping for 1851. There are visible filled screw holes on the side of the lock indicating the the donor arm was a tube-lock arm as well.
    Overall the gun looks to be in good shape for its age, and the bayonet is also correct. The bayonet is accompanies by a US scabbard rather than the leather covered wooden Austrian style scabbard, which is correct for Civil War use by Federal troops. The scabbard appears to have 2 rivets, indicating it is a pattern 1859 scabbard. The belt looks to be a standard pre 1863 version with a sewn keeper.
    This is a nice grouping. Thanks for sharing with us.

    Cheers,
    Garrett
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2016
    Jonathan W. likes this.
  10. Jonathan W.

    Jonathan W. New Member

    5
    Dec 31, 2016
    Thank you Garrett. That is certainly more information than I had previously. I have been trying to research this for several years and thought I'd try this forum. Like previous posters, I thought it to be a mix of an Enfield and or a Springfield yet nothing on this weapon matched those specifically.
    Any idea of what the value of this would be with all the accessories? Wondering to see if I should be getting a rider on my home owners insurance.
     
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