Soot issue

Discussion in 'The 1911 Forum' started by Kody24, Jan 5, 2017.

  1. Kody24

    Kody24 Well-Known Member

    179
    Dec 11, 2016
    Nw oregon
    The last time I picked up powder all they had was vihta vuori (probably spelled that wrong) n320. I had data for it in the book so I picked up a pound and it works fine but it's sooty. The stuff gets everywhere. After a kupl hundred rounds it actually gets bad enough to cause feeding issues. It's even all over the end of the barrel bushing, in the magazine well, and under the slide. I still have a few hundred rounds worth of the stuff and would hate to waste it. Should I just finish up this can and switch to a different powder or will I be dealing with this no matter what? My 1911 is my only semiauto so I'm not extremely familiar with the quirks of them besides being less tolerant of gunk than my bolt actions.
     
  2. howlnmad

    howlnmad Well-Known Member Supporting Member

    Nov 26, 2008
    Harriman, Tn
    I've never used that brand powder so I don't know it's characteristics. Are these possibly l8ght loads and the case isn't fully expanding in the chamber?
    Or maybe the stuff is like theold Unique formula, "flammable dirt".
     

  3. Kody24

    Kody24 Well-Known Member

    179
    Dec 11, 2016
    Nw oregon
    They are close to minimum load. Dropped .2 grains because it was sliNing brass halfway to the next county and leaving some serious ejector nicks in my brass. My Sierra manual calls for 4.7-5.5 grains. At 5.2 grains is where I was. Now at 5 grains. I was getting a little soot before but not bad.
     
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  4. vassago

    vassago Well-Known Member Supporting Member

    409
    Dec 31, 2013
    Netherlands
    N320 is a very good powder for 9mm and .45 ACP and it should not be sooty. It should be one of the cleaner burning powders.
    If it is sooty you are using too little of it, that is when most powders get sooty btw.

    What bullet are you reloading? (weight and type) In the VV manual 4.7 grns is only used for lead for all other types it is somewhat an undercharge.

    1911's fling brass pretty far but should not dent the cases, up the powder charge and find out why the brass is getting dented.
    Maybe the ejector needs tuning or the recoil spring needs replacing.
     
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  5. LDBennett

    LDBennett Well-Known Member

    Dec 20, 2003
    Hesperia, CA
    Usually soot is caused by a load that is too light, not letting the case expand enough to seal off the firing chamber. I'd increase the powder level (stay under maximum). You can control the wild ejection by trying heavier recoil springs. Increase them until the gun will not reliably cycle than use the next lighter spring. Keeping the slide closed longer due to a heavier weight recoil spring might also help with the soot problem. Wolff makes a kit of recoil springs for 1911's.

    1911's ding the brass on ejection. It is because or the square edge on the ejection port of the slide. A common modification is the chamfer in the shape of a cartridge at the rear edge of the ejection port. It gives a flat surface for the ejected case to hit rather than a sharp corner. Brownells use to offer (??) a grinding tool for the modification. Case dings are pretty normal but a stronger recoil spring can slow the slide down so the force of impact of the case to the slide is minimized. I have a 1911 Colt Delta Elite in 10mm. Those cases that are about 30 years old and have been reloaded many times, have remnants of dings numbering at least 10 or more. They iron out somewhat during reloading but still leave a vestige of their presence.

    LDBennett
     
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  6. Kody24

    Kody24 Well-Known Member

    179
    Dec 11, 2016
    Nw oregon
    Thanks guys. I'll up the charge and if it fixes the soot I'll start playing with springs. I have noticed since I lowered the charge it will sometimes drop the brass on my shoulder or on the ground next to me. It's nice for picking up the brass but better functionality is more important than aiding my lazyness. As for bullets, I shoot hornady 230 round nose almost exclusively. Because it's cheap and they feed good. My gun hates hollow points of any variety. It will feed them if I load them to a shorter OAL than spec but even then it's finiky. It's a citadel El cheepo. Picked it up at,a gun show for the girlfriend to shoot.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2017
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  7. gdmoody

    gdmoody Moderator Supporting Member

    Sep 7, 2007
    Athens, Georgia
    Nothing whatsoever wrong with El cheapo Citadel 1911s. They work fine and serve their purpose. I have a Citadel and I have to tell you that is has the best trigger of any of the 1911's that I have (I've got 8).
     
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  8. Kody24

    Kody24 Well-Known Member

    179
    Dec 11, 2016
    Nw oregon
    Nothing wrong with it at all. We love this gun. Only had 2 issues with it so far, this soot issue (obviously ammo) and not feeding hollow points, which is a 1911 quirk from everything I've read. Hollow points are a whatever issue to me because this things job in life is to hit targets and keep the girlfriend shooting since Sha can't do a rifle anymore for a while
     
  9. UncleFudd

    UncleFudd Well-Known Member

    710
    Mar 23, 2008
    Phoenix, Az
    Kody

    LD had the goods on dents and chamfering and all else.
    Also, are you crimping your loads? That can also cause the blobby and cause the sooting. I use a taper crimp on all my pistol loads and never had problems with any except my 45LC, I did just as LD said and fixed the problem right away.

    UF
     
  10. Kody24

    Kody24 Well-Known Member

    179
    Dec 11, 2016
    Nw oregon
    Rcbs taper crimp\seating die. I make sure I get a good crimp. I'm one of those tight group rifle guys that weighs every charge and inspects every case every time. I will volume measure 45 but other than that it's all inspected and double checked. I even step outside and make sure they all feed smoothly before I'm done. Thinking it was too light of a load. I took the last of that batch out and used a tire as a backstop for my target. Pulled several bullets out of the tire that looked so good i'd reuse them if I was less smart. One didn't even make it through all the way. At 30 feet away on a cheep small car tire I would expect more.
     
  11. UncleFudd

    UncleFudd Well-Known Member

    710
    Mar 23, 2008
    Phoenix, Az
    Kody
    A man after my own. I do much the same with my rifle loads and both rifle and pistol as well as my shotshell loads go over my crono.
    If your crimps are good then it goes back to the load already decided.

    Good luck and let us know as I am curious about the sooting issue.

    UF
     
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  12. Kody24

    Kody24 Well-Known Member

    179
    Dec 11, 2016
    Nw oregon
    Will do. I loaded up some with the original load I used, before I got the soot. Gonna try it out probably sometime this week weather permitting. I don't have a chronograph yet, but I recover my bullets whenever possible and learn what I can that way. I got the fear of God put in me about reloading mistakes by a couple of people when I started and homely as it may be I like my face the way it is so I'm careful. Besides, if you can make better ammo why wouldn't you?
     
  13. UncleFudd

    UncleFudd Well-Known Member

    710
    Mar 23, 2008
    Phoenix, Az
    Kody

    Right on. Loading is fun and interesting and your own loads are generally more accurate when you get them worked up.
    Plus you can use the manuals for starting loads and make your own inside the parameters set. Plinking or full power all calibers.

    UF
     
  14. jim brady

    jim brady Well-Known Member

    Sep 22, 2009
    Simla, Colorado
    Kody - you won't be able to learn much from any recovered bullets. The other guys hit all of the bases concerning possible soot problems. Look around and I'm pretty sure you'd be able to find a chronograph (even a decent used one). If you are serious about working up loads - a chronograph can be a very useful tool.

    Powder choice wise - I know a lot of folks swear by '231 for the .45 ACP. The other two top choices are Bullseye and Unique. I use Unique - but that is only because I use it for so many other calibers as well. The newer formula isn't near as bad as the old formula's reputation (flammable dirt!:p).
     
  15. Kody24

    Kody24 Well-Known Member

    179
    Dec 11, 2016
    Nw oregon
    I'll have to see what I can get. One of the upsides to being an improving, but still poor pistol shot is so far it doesn't matter what I load I don't lose accuracy. I just don't shoot tight groups yet. So for now anything that goes boom in a safe manner constitutes a good powder for me. Now I just gotta find new powder. I still have a half pound left so it may be a while, giving me time to figure out what powder I want next.
     
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